In reference to an uproar in Malaysia in regards to a pastor setting up a liberal church in Malaysia:
Rev. Ou Yang Wen Feng was ordained just a few months back at the Metropolitan Community Church, New York.
Some Christians would still argue homosexuality as a sin, just as decades to centuries ago, we used to argue that the earth is flat and the sun revolves around it, we can have slaves among countries around our nations, blacks are children of a lesser God and so forth.
I watched a movie yesterday called 'Walk The Line'. It is about the lives of Johnny Cash and June Carter. June Carter was judged throughout the movie by some Christian sections as an adulteress, all because she is divorced (it is the thinking back in the 1950's that if you are divorced, it is most probably because you committed adultery with another men) But today, 50 years on, such misconception no longer exists. We would move with times, but not with homosexuality. We give every reason to why the old laws of Leviticus could not be applied at our times now, but totally singling out homosexuality. Why?
I read a comment on ex-gaywatch which struck me as one of the answers:
And they don’t get NEARLY so worked up as on gay related issues.Not on domestic violence, not on adultery, not on murder, gang incursion into every American city…no other subject seems to get them started than homosexuality.
Regan, I believe a big part of that reason is personal prejudice and disdain for homosexuality that isn’t always necessarily based on Scripture. A personal dislike if you will because there are some individuals that have no profession of faith but have a strong prejudice against homosexuality. Divorce, adultery, murder can be seen for some as a one time act while homosexuality is seen as a continuous lifestyle choice. I’ve met a few Christians that believe that homosexuality is worse than murder. They base this belief on what I said above. One time act vs. a continuous lifestyle choice. Ken R - exgaywatch.
It is nearly an end game for ex-gay ministries in throughout the world. At the turn of the century, homosexuality is now confirmed as inborn, and not socially constructed. And at the turned of the decade, the insistence of churches that homosexuality can be 'cured' or 'erased' had turned into the acceptance of homosexuality as unchangable, but the need to be celibate is required for people of this orientation.
The definition of the 'homosexual lifestyle' is still one of the most bothersome questions Christians can ever answer. The word 'lifestyle' itself is as vague as homosexual 'behaviour'. What constitutes the 'sinful lifestyle'? Going to a mall? How is it any different than a heterosexual lifestyle? Example, images of provocative artistes such as Shakira and Beyonce are on display almost every single day. Their adulteress like 'behaviour' on MTV, barely clothed and hip shaking shows are watched by millions all across the world. So how can we support that and say that it is okay, but the expression of two men in love considered a higher level of sin?
The numbers of HIV/AIDS infections are rising, but the fact remains that heterosexuals represent the highest numbers of cases of infections in Malaysia. Once touted as a homosexual disease, even young children are not spared. The ignorance in depiction of homosexuals as its carriers is going to sow seeds of consequence. Heterosexuals would be having sex without protection, assuming they would be free from it. The discrimination of homosexuals, even transgenders by this manner is complete misguided. HIV/AIDS does not discriminate.
I can give more examples, but seriously, it is time we really think about what is going on and reconcile the reality of the world we live in with the faith we profess. If not, we might as well continue to be stuck in a third world mentality, where the sun still travels around the flat earth. We should justify the good things of this earth and see the positives of people, and not giving excuses to impose our bigoted thinking on what we feel uncomfortable with, while enjoying another sexy video by Mariah Carey, and learning from Akon on how to 'smack that'.
A scathing response was produced, let us examine the mind of a Christian fundie, and allow me to comment along the way:
Hey, here’s a notion: Let’s go learn about holiness, crucifying he self, and obedience to God from a person who is blatantly defying God’s laws by being homosexual.
Being homosexual is not defying God's law. Sadly, as it is well known ever since 1949, bias crept into the Bible through translators.
Next, we can attend services focusing on honesty by a convicted white-collar criminal.
It is amazing how a person could not separate criminal activity, with love between two men.
And then leave our children at Sunday School run by Michael Jackson who claims to have been born again, hallelujah!
Probably the sign of how shallow some people view others. Michael Jackson was harrassed and milked millions of dollars, by mothers who ask their children to say they are molested by him. The case was closed after they find conflicting testimonies.
It is my opinion, and the opinion of the VAST majority of mainstream REAL
churches, that homosexuality and pastoring do not mix.
The VAST majority of mainstream REAL church are known as Christian liberals. And most of them already have already drummed to dead the misinformation concerning homosexuality in the Bible by Christian fundamentalists. Probably a few radicals like people who are homophobic, still wish to linger on.
Let me be clear that I am all for acceptance of people who lead homosexual
lifestyles. However, the homosexual lifestyle itself should be renounced and left behind.
Again I stress again, what constitutes the homosexual 'lifestyle'? I know a good couple, who go watch movies and hang out in the mall and so forth. Heck, they do not even like pubs as much as heterosexuals do. Anyway, they are two men in love, so what is the 'lifestyle'?
The correct way of dealing with this is to accept homosexual persons, but to
show them God’s love for them and how God does not want them to live life short
of what He intends for them. Visit this link to ex-gay EdmundSmith of Real Love Ministry for how homosexuals can be accepted without condoning sinful homosexuality.
The correct way of dealing with homosexuals is to stop the prejudice and stigmatization against them, not submitting them to a orientation confused man who runs a huge sexual orientation and identity misinformation campaign. And stop the meaningless talk of how homosexuality is so sinful, when heterosexuality is equally that sinful. It is not the orientation. It is the person. God judges the matters of the heart, remember?
If that doesn’t make you stop feeling homosexul inside, then supress it. I was an angry and horny young man, and I survived 25 years without beating people up or having illicit sex. Tht’s what self-denial is all about, you can’t break a habit by accepting and feeding it.
Still being an angry and horny young man, but surpressing his heterosexuality. Probably would agree with him here, unless he wants to show an example but never having sex at all with anyone, and never getting married.
The bottom line: You can be gay, but you can’t be Christian and
I do not think any person would agree to that. The third world mentality of some young men is really getting stale. So I can be born left handed and I cannot be a Christian? I am born with a third hand, so I am left out of His kingdom? So God made homosexuals to be condemned later? Not one homosexual Christian questions God, but heterosexual people still do. This shows homosexuals appreciate God by accepting themselves, more so than heterosexuals. I did not say that, but the statements above proves that.
Or go ahead and remain gay. Open a new religious-congregation building -
just don’t call it a church.
When two or three homosexuals or heterosexuals gather in the name of the Lord, it is therefore called a church. Something must be wrong when Christians still think the church is a building. Probably to much anguish caused by attending talks by a confused misinformative ministry.
Lead the worshippers in prayer - just don’t call yourself a pastor.
God chooses pastors for the church. Some people just loves playing God.
And teach your version of religion - just don’t call it Christian.
Christians are overrated. I will settle with believer in Christ. I am utterly astonished at how some fundamentalist people still fail to remember Christian fundamentals such as John 3:16.
By professing to the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus for our sins yetThe Bible according to some fellow who is hogwashed by another fellow who was hogwashed... Or we could just read the Bible as just the Bible, without questions, without interpretations and without prejudice; not picking up lines and make them justifications to stampede on a minority group just because we feel uncomfortable with them. Now, THAT would grief the Holy Spirit.
continuing to live in wilful sin, you seriously grieve the Holy Spirit. (See
the bottom of this post on homosexuality and the Bible for Biblical mentions
My spirit rejoices with Reverand Ou's spirit, as he trully opens a sanctuary for the often misunderstood community. People like us. God Speed. Our Saviour blesses the pure in heart and the humble, against the oppression of the hypocrates and the proud.
Matthew 7: 1-2
"1Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Another update 11/8/2007
Information about the Sunday worship (after you negotiate through more devilish show of Christian 'luv'), is here:
On Aug 11 is Q & A time for people who are persecuted as gays and lesbians.
On Aug 12 is Sunday Worship.
Venue: Grand Olympic Hotel, KL.
Co-ordinator: Joseph, 012-2087 949.
You can have more comedy here too, this weird sounding article is by another Rev called Allen Tan (http://www.churchinperth.com/site/adetails.asp?ArticleID=1182). This statement tops the list of one liners:
The consequence is: more people are getting HIV, and souls won by them
would head for hell!
If we are really going to hell, I guess we would be seeing Rev Allen Tan there too. Ditto.